CSI: On Golden Pond
|Starring Frank Miklos – He’s out to prove U-22-1460 is the real deal!|
Well… I don’t know what’s harder, allowing comments attacking Pat, Frank and I or writing this and starting up all the crap again. The week of the U-22-1460 Golden Pond boat discovery was supposed to be a celebration, and instead it turned into a Jerry Springer show moment.. It was not what we wanted to see, and certainly did not cast a nice light on the hobby that we all enjoy. We left that week, with some very nice peaceful classic boat art, classic boat hats and toilet humor.. Bob Ross can sooth the savage soul.. HA…. All was well again in Woody Boaterville..
Until this week.. Several anonymous commenter’s commented on several posts that Pat, Frank and I were fabricators of these boats. That somehow this was all because Pat wanted to buy U-22-1802 back in the day. So? For the record..again…so did I on the eBay sale.. Hell I still would like it.. It’s a cool boat..They all are…I want every boat I see.. But these boats are special in my mind… The Mail Boat is my dream boat though…. Not sure what the point was, claiming that I wanted to buy it.. It’s no secret.. Why is that a bad thing? I duth covet another mans boat is not the 11th commandment. If that’s the new rule.. you can kiss any boat show you want to go to good by… Also Jeff Thom is a great guy and caretaker of U -22-1802 and has done a fantastic restoration..
The accusations further accuses Frank and I some how got dragged into Pats master web of manipulation.. Really? Sarcasm alert here…. So….Some how Pat snuck out of his apartment and added a bunch of secret parts to a generic U-22 boat, and made up the US Mail boat? Really? Then hired some actors to play a very nice private family.. had all the paper work stashed in there file cabinets…… That we then drove from all over the country to document these things.. for what? So Pat could make a couple hundred bucks.. Pat for the record does NOT want the boats.. I asked.. The debate would not be left alone… I was more than happy to move on.. Why couldn’t the fans of U 22-1802 and U 22-1460 just get along? Rodney King had it right… I get along with Jeff the owner of 1802? If anyone wanted to talk to me, Pat or Frank about it.. We were very open to doing so one on one through email or phone so as to not continue the meaningless debate….. But accusing us publicly of being dishonest put me in a tough spot.. I could not, not publish the comments, and then be accused of not doing that? Either way, I was screwed… And if just left it alone, made us all look like it was true.. Especially when it’s done anonymously and multiple times..
For the record defending U 22-1802 seems pointless to me…since it has so much press…it really does not need to be defended in my book.. It’s like defending one Lassie over another.. Tearing us down to do that is just wrong.. Our focus on the stories was a celebration of U-22-1460 and the US Mail Boat Mariah.. The well known star of the press U-22 1802 had just been restored and thought it would be a good tie in… I personally wanted to move on to more positive things. Pat.. As he said” I left that film 30 years ago. “But Frank Miklos of CenturyClassicPowerBoat.com felt like the comments were personal, which they were.. unfair, and frankly offensive.. So.. Frank spent countless hours going frame by frame through the film… to prove that U-22-1460 had a place in the film…to prove a point.. Since U-22-1460 has no press, or history from the past 28 years.. The only place to go other than Pats word, which was being challenged.. He needed to go back to the start. The footage… Not the in between part, the press that does not exist on 1460.. He picked apart each boat.. Plank by plank.. painful detail by detail, film frame by film frame.. We could go on and on about this.. But won’t.. The story is now beyond complete in our book.. I hope.. If you want to look at Franks site.. Click here.. if not.. we completely understand, frankly.. no pun intended.. but it is funny.. “Frankly”, both boats U-22-1802 and now U-22-1460 deserve a place in the films history..We should celebrate that fact.
I personally look forward to some sort of reunion of the boats…and a positive conclusion to this. This summer will be the 30th anniversary of the release of the film.. Let’s celebrate 1820 and 1460.. and the Mail Boat and the hobby.
In this story for a one time event.. I will NOT allow any more anonymous negative comments. It’s to destructive, and gains nothing more to the story since there is no point of reference to whom is making the comments. If you have an issue.. Do it the way you used to.. Behind our backs. HA….
I raise a can of varnish to 1460 and 1802…. To the mail boat Mariah.. a can of paint..and bug spray!
As My Mother used to say " if you boys keep playing like that one of you is going to end up crying." If this keeps up there is going to be a keel hauling!!!!!!!
Wow, can't believe this is still haunting you. Wouldn't it be less painful to just repeatedly hit you thumb with a hammer! Don't let the bastards wear you down. All along I thought this blog was just a fun diversion for you, at what point did it become necessary to become the guru on top of the mountain with all the answers and the final say? Chill, have fun and hell, post what you want, it's your blog. Let the others get their own. Although I may find the history of some boats fascinating I got into the hobby for pleasure and relaxation (well varnishing isn't but whatever). Matt it may be early but make yourself a margarita, put on some Jimmy Buffet and go sit in your boat, even if it's on the hard. Keep it all in perspective because in the end unless you're in the hobby for investments (not many of us) its all good.
As a new follower of WoodyBoater I have a hard time believing all of the animosity directed at you guys. You provided an interesting, well written story that at the very least entertains if not educates. Yes, I may be a newbie woody owner/commenter, but where some see conspiracy, I see a useful and fun resource. Thanks for the blog and all the work you put into it…
Perhaps you should take a ride down to Raleigh and see what Amanda has to say about all this. I bet she could make you feel better.
And with regard to anonymous comments……there's no place for them unless they're funny, nice or have a link taking us to an on-line bikini contest. An accusatory comment with no name has no merit. Make it a Woodyboater policy.
So, whats in store for tomorrow? More hats, toilet humor and the like?
I think this was an inside job….. that or George Bush was involved someway, somehow… 😉
Well put, my friend. Probably not necessary for us faithful followers of your Blog but I understand your need to set the record straight after feeling personally attacked. We enjoy it all and, speaking for myself, don't mind your need to post this today, if it helps you. It's all part of this fantastic passion we have for WoodyBoats, Hats, Toilet Seats, Calendar Girls, etc.
We will not allow such diologe anymore.. If its about the boats.. Fine.. But when it wonders into personal stuff..this aint the place.. Unless its good… Then pile the BS on.. HA
I agree with Stephen. I like reading the history and followed the story like I was involved in a treasure hunt. Wow what an adventure and the "others" whoever they are? can say what they want I believe its true and not make believe. I do believe, I do believe I do I do I do.!! Thanks for the story . Tom
I got a call from my friend who hosts my web page… He said my band width is high today… He was worried about hackers, "not the boats". I told him that I posted 90 large photos… along with numerous hits that would affect my band width…
I don't have a counter on the page but I can say it has been hit many times today…
Going through the movie frame by frame did take some time… I saw details I never noticed before… For the most part this has all been fun…
Group Hug!! You'll have to excuse me if I sign this one anonymous.
The hits were from me, I was trying to hack into the mainframe and steal the Miklos family varnish recipe.
This story is like the energizer battery. It keeps going and going and going….. I thought this was over a couple weeks back but after this morning’s story I had to go back and check out the recent posts that revived it. I wouldn’t be too concerned about anonymous posts, Woody, as you don’t deserve the insinuations.
I must say that after today’s review of your past stories and the Mr. Miklos site, I am now questioning this more than ever. I hate to add wood (mahogany) to the fire but it is public knowledge that 1802 has had some level of restoration at least 3 times, since it was sold to Mr. Hendricks. With that in mind, can’t we all agree there is a very good chance that things like snap lines, after market vents, steering wheels, etc. were changed, possibly more than once, in those 27 years? Mr. Miklos uses a comparison of the boat in the 1981 movie up against what 1802 looked like when for sale on e-bay and today. Knowing about the past restorations and using that comparison doesn’t seem very realistic. It’s obvious nothing has been done to 1460 and that is proven by its condition but several changes were more than likely made to 1802 since the movie, as Mr. Curtin confirmed in your story.
I think we all need to remember what Mr. Curtin said. The Hendricks boat had the hardware on it just like 1460 and Mr. Hendricks didn’t want it so it was taken off by Mr. Curtin. The other fact Mr. Curtin mentioned, we should consider. Unless you were there you can’t truly know. Neither I, Mr. Curtin, Mr. Miklos or anyone else was there to witness both the movie and the changes made during the 20 plus years the Henricks family owned 1802.
In my book, you have nothing to defend yourself for, Woody. I like the fact that you report and we decide and thank you.
Thanks for the nice comments.. We agree that both boats should get along.. 27 years is a loooong time.. My point here was not to talk about 1802.. Thats a done deal.. 1460 is who needed the help.. Maybe I was being to sensitive? I do love the fact though that Mariah and 1460 have never been touched.. Thats the magic for me.. And as i stated in the previous stories.. 1460 should be preserved, not restored as to protect the history. And 1802 should be enjoyed by actually using her.. I want to see all of them together this summer.. And bask in the golden Pondness of what they represent.. Thanks for a great day..
As a group we strive to represent the positive aspects of the Antique & Classic Boat Hobby.
The word Hobby is defined in Webster's Dictionary as… Interest engaged in for relaxation.
Wikipedia has a great definition…
Hobbies are practiced for interest and enjoyment, rather than financial reward. Examples include collecting, creative and artistic pursuits, making, tinkering, sports and adult education. Engaging in a hobby can lead to acquiring substantial skill, knowledge and experience. However, personal fulfillment is the aim.
To me, that says it all…
I love wooden boats…my boat is a 18 ft Riviera…well now I have to deal with a 20' Tigue wakebord boat…well really my challange has been a 65 pound Beaver in my boathouse… in the words of Clark W. Griswold….GONE!!
In the end, what do we have to study history. We have written history (transaction records, restoration records, and stories in various publications), and then we have oral history that is passed down from one point in time to another. And, then we have pictorial history which records as accurately as possibly – the state of the subject matter at a given point in time.
I think Frank Miklos has done a comprehensive study and analysis of the history of all 3 boats given that which he has had to work with. A personal disclaimer here – I know Frank, and I consider him a friend and a tremendous resource as I continue to acquire Century boats. He has never failed to provide me with valuable information and answers when I have questions. Future study of the history of these boats…and…many others – as the need (or wants arise – may change the history we know now.
Matt – you provide a valuable tool for me to study and acquire more knowledge and information about the wonderful history of all boats we consider classics and antiques. The openness you exibit to allow others to have input and provide the many stories we are all able to read and add to our knowledge base is astounding.
I commend you (and Frank Miklos) for not shutting the door on this topic when the seas became a bit rough ("The Perfect Storm).
Thanks for all the effort.
I am sorry it took so long to post this comment but there is a whole lot of information to review. My only interest was to see what boats were actually shown in the movie. If the boat was on film in the movie, then it is a true Golden Pond boat in my mind and anything else doesn't matter. I looked at pictures that Mr Miklos posted to come to my conclusions.
Hull #1460 can be proven to be in the film many times. To prove it was hull #1460, I used the thru hull on the starboard side of the boat by the Chris Craft name and the black spot light knob in the middle of the dash. It shows this boat in every scene except for one short scene with a two spoke wheel. It is proven that 1460 has a three spoke wheel.
I thought,like most people, that hull #1802 was used in the two spoke steering wheel scene. It said in the article that 1802 had a thru hull fitting on the port side just ahead of the Chris Craft name. There are no pictures in the movie of a U-22 with a thru hull on the port side. I also looked at the dash pictures that Mr Miklos posted, one from the movie,one from ebay and one after the last restoration and they all seem different.
The ebay pictures show the dash with a two spoke wheel.
The picture of the recent restoration of 1802 shows the same basic dash but with a three spoke wheel. I wonder why they chanced the steering wheel?
The movie picture of the dash with the two spoke wheel is a different dash than 1802, look real close!
After reading all the comments, there seems to be a group of people who said that hull #1802 was the only picture boat used in the movie but if you look at the pictures, there is no proof that it ever got in the movie.
Remember a picture is worth a thousand words and there is no picture that proves # 1802 was in the movie.
The 1802 people said things were changed on the boat but i don't think the movie people would change the dash or the thru hull from the port side to the starboard side, do you?
The only proof we have of changes to the boats by pictures is the recent restoration pictures of 1802 where the steering wheel was changed from a two spoke to a three spoke, again I wonder why this was done?
I don't know how anyone could argue against the pictures!
I would like thank woody boater for the time and effort they put into this. Well have a nice day. Bill Allen
You "don't know how anyone could argue against the pictures" when comparing 1802 now to a boat that was in a movie 27 years ago?
The 1802 people said things were changed? I am not an "1802 person" but Mr. Curtin said things were changed. I agree that a lot of changes were made to the dash and all parts of the boat as that was confirmed even before the Hendricks family owned it, by Mr. Curtin.
A picture is worth a thousand words? You mean the picture with Mr. Curtin that says 1802 is “the boat which Henry Fonda and Katharine Hepburn used for their excursions on Golden Pond.”
I guess it proves that we all end up believing what we want to believe.
Thanks again, Matt.
I invite all of you to look at this a different way. Hold on here… Lets take The Dukes of hazard.. It seems appropriate here considering the last comments… Now.. We all know that on any given sunday there are about 20 or so General Lees out there.. Give or take some.. Not sure.. The point is.. The General Lee, like the Thayer IV is a character in a film.. 1802 and 1460 where both as boats the actors that were chosen to play that character.. PEriod… So one got more screen time than another.. FINE.. But they were both actors chosen for the part and thus are allowed that credit.
And, another take on the whole scenario: All this recent discussion on the boat in the movie led me to seek out the movie and watch it again. You know, I don't care whether it is 1802 or 1460 in the various shots. First of all, I can't remember a movie in which a good old mahogany speedboat is featured quite as prominently as this one. Second, it had been a long time since I'd seen the movie – probably when it was shown in the movie houses on original release.
Finally, I can hardly put into words how I felt as young Billy took off for his first solo ride in the boat. Talk about emotional memories. WOW! Then….the arial shots from above as he speeds across the lake with that s__t eating grin on his face and does circles on the lake. Oh!Boy!. During this long Wisconsin winter I am going to have to take that movie out any number of times and fast forward to those scenes just to get a good old dose of teen-hood memories and push away the doldrums of the long, cold, white, dark winter. Gosh! it was 18 above outside yesterday afternoon – BUT I went for a fantastic boat ride.
I cant agree more.. According to Pat the scene where the kid goes out was a one day shoot, all helicopter stuff. To me that is the scene.. Thats the money shot.. It was going to be left out of the edit, but they put it in to build time up.. As one guy who saw the final cut said.. "Well we just made a Chris Craft Commercial"…No kidding. The sail boat in the scene was not planned.. Still to this day those folks don't know they are in one of the most classic boat scenes in film history..
Just one more note about movie making etc… ( I have worked on two movies and one comerical).
I worked 93 days on the film, "Striking Distance". Two or three days in an HBO movie, "Citizen Cohn". And a one day commerical shoot for First Niagara Bank….
In Striking Distance there were at least 1 full plot line that was edited out… and several other scenes removed… all to keep the movie under two hours… There was so much footage that was discarded on the Capris in this movie it is not funny… Including one full real of me driving the Capri… (filmographer made a mistake and had the camera running) It was supposed to be a lighting check…
Citizen Cohn our two or three days work ended up being on screen for 7 seconds… Even though there was much more that was shot…
Our First Niagara Bank comerical We were on set for about 5 hours… We made many runs for the scene, all being filmed the screen time is 3.5 seconds…
What dose this have to do with "On Golden Pond"… When the movie came out no one a way of picking the movie apart… No one knew what boats made or didn't make the movie… We know that they were all used in the making of the film… How much each were actually in the film did not matter to the editors… They did not care… they were just making the best movie they could with the footage that was shot… In a 2 hour movie at least 10 hours of film is shot… Many dialog scenes are shot multiple times from different view points… Most of the film shot (about 90% does not make the final cut)… It would be fun to see the the film not seen in the movie….
I would not mind owning any of the boats in the movie but that is not going to happen… But the one that I would have wanted most was the "Crash Boat". I would have kept it as it was…